Linda:
Hello and welcome to episode 37 of the spectrum. This was recorded on March 9th, 2026. Today we have a guest, Colonel Bree Fram, who is a retired colonel in the US Space Force. That’s the correct branch of the military, right?

Bree:
That is. Eighteen years in the Air Force, then five in the Space Force.

Linda:
Okay, well welcome and thanks for stopping by today. Colonel Fram, Bree, is retired from the Air Force, but I think not entirely by choice.

Bree:
Certainly not.

Linda:
So in researching your background, it looks like you served, you said for a total of 23 years. Is that right?

Bree:
I did, yes.

Linda:
And so that’s a really long amount of time. So what prompted you to join the Air Force and then later what became the Space Force?

Bree:
Yeah, I graduated from college in 2001 with my degree in aerospace engineering and I wanted to help humanity expand into the stars. That was what I had wanted to do since I was about nine or ten when a friend of mine over my objection made me watch an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation with him.

Linda:
Oh well, then we have a lot in common.

Bree:
If we want to talk Trek, let’s talk Trek all day long because I’m a huge nerd and I love it all. But that got me into aerospace, but I was applying for jobs that summer to work for NASA or Boeing or some other big contract company that was working on space technology. And we got attacked. And after September 11th, my world changed like that, that I wanted to give back. I wanted to be part of something larger than myself. But I also still wanted to work on cool space programs and joining the Air Force, joining the military was an opportunity to do both.

Linda:
So that was your motivation for joining. What kept you in for so many years, decades?

Bree:
I loved it. I loved the people that I worked with. I loved the mission that we had, the technology that we worked on. It was incredibly meaningful for me to wear the flag on my shoulder for all those years. I have an incredible family history of service and it felt like it was the place I needed to be. It felt like not only was I doing good, but I was also putting good into the world. And so was for the majority of my time there, the US military. We were out there to make lives better for people and to make sure that the American people were safe and secure.

Linda:
In 2016, you came out as a transgender woman while on active duty, right? So what happened to prompt that?

Bree:
Well, what prompted it was the policy changing. There had been work being done for years leading up to that, particularly after the repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell in 2011. People were fighting for the right of all of us to serve because we knew we could meet the standard. So effort was made to push for open and inclusive policies. And in 2016, that finally changed that trans people were allowed to serve openly. So it was on that very day that the Secretary of Defense made the announcement that policy had changed was the day that I came out. Because it was something that I had been hiding for 13 years at that point. And to be allowed to be yourself is such a gift. And to be able to take off that heavy cloak, to stop paying that tax of hiding your identity. That’s amazing. It was a gift to me and to the unit on the mission.

Linda:
So it wasn’t some kind of trauma where something just broke and you couldn’t hide it anymore. It was you’d been hiding it for a long time and now you didn’t have to.

Bree:
That’s exactly it. It was a chance to reach for the best version of myself. I’d like to say that I was probably really good at my job, but I couldn’t be the best I could be at my job when I was taking time that I had to use to hide my identity. I was putting the mission and the needs of the service first. But when we were able to come together and not have me paying that extra cost on my mental energy, it was better for everyone all around us.

Linda:
So what was it like transitioning on the job in the Air Force? What kind of response did you get from the people that you served with and from the institution as a whole?

Bree:
I received almost nothing but support and love from the people that I worked with, the people that I worked for, and the people that I had the honor of leading. When I came out that very moment when the secretary announced that trans people could serve openly, I had an email ready to go to all of my colleagues and a Facebook post also coming out to the world. So when that wrapped up, I wondered how is my life going to change? And it took me a moment to get the courage to hit send, to hit post on those things. And then I ran away. I found the gym buried underneath the Pentagon, hopped on the elliptical machine and went nowhere faster than I’d ever gone anywhere in my life. Because I didn’t know yet when I did get back to my desk, my colleagues walked over to me one by one, shook my hand and said, “It’s an honor to serve with you.”

Linda:
From 2019 to 2021, Trump had instituted another, his first attempt at a transgender ban. What was it like serving during that time period?

Bree:
Well, what happened that first time around is that the administration was allowed to implement, as you described it, a ban, which meant that no one knew who was trans could get into the service. And anyone who was currently in service couldn’t come out as trans. But there was an exception made for the approximately 1600 of us at the time that had already come out. We were allowed to continue serving. And so it felt like being an endangered species, that the environment was going to be so hostile that over time, we would just fade away if those policies were allowed to remain in place. But we took it again as this is still an opportunity. Every single day we’re allowed to wear the uniform was a day to change someone’s heart, to change someone’s mind about what it meant to be trans and what it meant to serve with a trans person. So every day we fought as hard as possible to meet and exceed the standard, and we succeeded beyond anyone’s wildest expectations to change the narrative by serving through that and continuing to serve afterwards.

Linda:
Let’s fast forward to 2025, and then there was the second transgender ban, which actually prohibited transgender people from serving. How did that happen? What was your experience with that?

Bree:
Well, this time around the administration went much further. It wasn’t just a ban, as I described, but it was also a purge. This effort took every trans person in the military and said, “You are not worthy of military service.” The executive order describing us said we were dishonorable liars who lacked the humility required for military service. And so it attacked our character, as well as making up all sorts of lies about our ability to meet standards, to deploy, to accomplish our wartime mission. So this was an attack not just on trans people in the military, but on trans people more broadly in describing our character. But the result was the same, though we won court challenges at the district court level, where the judges put an injunction on the policy and in fact pointed to our service records as Exhibit A as to why the government’s claims lack any sort of merit. Yet when the government made an emergency appeal to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court said, “We don’t see any harm being done. We’re going to defer to the executive. Let’s let this go through all the appeals process. We’re not going to rule on the merit right now. But go ahead, government. Implement this purge.” So we were all being thrown out.

Linda:
I don’t know how the Supreme Court says that no harm is being done when it’s affecting people’s lives. They must have a different definition than the rest of us. But that’s the current status. It’s still going through that appeals process, right?

Bree:
That’s correct. The cases are still working their way through the appellate level.

Linda:
So during your time, it sounds like you had some positions where you had a great deal of responsibility. What kind of—to speak directly to the claims about transgender people that were made for this executive order that banned your service. Obviously, you were promoted to the rank of colonel. And what kind of responsibility were you given in your job?

Bree:
Well, you’re right that I and so many other trans service members met or exceeded standards throughout our careers. And you can look to my 23 years of performance reports, and they all say that. Even my very last one that was given when this policy was in place was recommending me for command and future assignments and saying how I exceeded every standard that was out there. And when I was selected for promotion to colonel, they order the people who are selected for that, so the order you actually get promoted in. And I was the number two in the entire service for that year when we went through the promotion boards. So not only was I at the top of my game, there are only 200 to 250 colonels in the Space Force in total. So we do have a lot of responsibility in order to develop and shape the future force that we’re going to have. It is at that point about how do we build future leaders? How do we build the policies and the systems that are going to be in place for us to deter conflict and should conflict occur to fight and win for decades into the future? And that’s what I was doing in my last couple of jobs was shaping the way the Space Force would build by and develop capabilities. And then in my final job, I was planning what those capabilities actually would be developing the requirements that our systems would need to have to be able to operate in the advanced threat environment 10, 20 years down the road.

Linda:
So that seems like a pretty clear refutation of the claims made in the executive order and in Pete Hegseth’s claims about transgender service people when you were number two on the list for promotion.

Bree:
Yeah, if we want to talk about anyone who’s unqualified for their job and can’t speak to the actual experience that military members have in bonding together, that’s Pete Hegseth. For him to make those claims that he would say, “We’re done with that shit. No more dudes in dresses.” You know what I showed up in? My uniform. And when I walked into the room, no one saw a trans person. They saw a colonel because we were there to accomplish a mission on behalf of the American people.

Linda:
I think that’s a pretty powerful statement about how the claims just have no basis in truth and are completely based in animus towards trans people.

Bree:
Yeah, I will not take any lessons in morality or effectiveness from the Secretary of War Crimes.

Linda:
We have a history in the country of people being prohibited from service or at least conventional service with black soldiers, women, gay soldiers, and transgender soldiers. And there’s plenty of examples of all of them serving with honor and distinction through the years. So you mentioned earlier that there were 1,600 people back in 2019 to 2021. Do you know how many people there were at the time of this second ban and purge?

Bree:
There’s no exact data, but it is thousands because even in one of those court cases where the Department of Justice was arguing that we’re the problem, and the judge asked, “Well, if these people are the problem, who are they?” And the Department of Justice’s response was, “We don’t know. We’re going to have to go through their medical records to find out.” And so we were also forbidden from collecting that data for decades as a result of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. People couldn’t even voluntarily self-identify. But studies have been done that put the estimates mostly in the 10,000 to 15,000 range across the entire force.

Linda:
Forgive my ignorance, but that’s 10,000 to 15,000 out of a total population of how many?

Bree:
Of over a million, yeah, across the reserve and active force.

Linda:
For 10 years now, you’ve been an out transgender woman. What kind of challenges has that brought to your life?

Bree:
Well, there’s been plenty, certainly, in terms of—

Linda:
And there’s the obvious one, your job.

Bree:
Yeah, I was not expecting to be fired based on something that had nothing to do with my ability to serve. But the challenges in many ways are just the hatred and the discrimination that we face in so many arenas, particularly when you are very public about it or in positions where people can identify you. And to me, that comes in the form of online threats and harassment and all the calls for me to kill myself. It shows up in me being on shows on Fox News and other right-wing outlets where they just put up clips of me to try and laugh at me so the hosts can laugh. And I’m like, “Great.” Because you know what? I stand behind every single word I said in that clip. And if 1% of your audience or 10% of your audience learned something from that, then we’re winning on these things. We are changing the narrative. And so I see all of that as opportunity to continue to change people’s ideas about who trans people are and how we can actually be amazing anywhere in society.

Linda:
We’re in a time where trans people are basically public enemy number one, and you’ve been very public about your life. Why have you been willing to do that given the pushback?

Bree:
Well, if the uniform gave me anything, it was the courage to stand up for what’s right. And if me sacrificing some of my or my family’s short-term security and stability can help us get to a long-term solution that benefits my grandkids, someone else’s kids, and make sure that every American knows that they are safe here and that they can grow up to be or do anything that they want to, that’s the freedom that I had. That was the opportunity that I was given by this country. I want that for everyone. And I’ve tried to show throughout my life that I’m willing to fight for that. And we need more Americans who are willing to stand up next to their neighbors, say, “I love you,” and actually show that in their actions, to say, “We’re going to take care of one another so everyone has the freedoms and opportunities to live their best life.”

Linda:
Obviously, there are a lot of challenges facing transgender people today, especially here in America. What do you see as the biggest ones, either from your own life or just in general, from seeing what’s happening?

Bree:
Oh, this is clear that this administration has made us the enemy and is attempting to force us out of public existence in every way that is, and that we see trans people and others moving from one state to another, or even worse, leaving this country because they no longer feel safe here. In many ways, that’s the goal: erase us. And so it is all about how do we counter that narrative? How do we stand up and tell stories of incredible people, whether that’s in the military, in politics, in any other way of life that convince people of our humanity that we have far more alike than we have that differentiates us. And so fighting against that narrative of erasure, fighting against that narrative that says, “We are everything that is wrong,” that is what we do by being public about who we are.

Linda:
It’s funny you should say that. I work with the local PFLAG chapter here in Woodstock, and we’re trying to put together a forum about transgender issues. And there was a woman there who said that being transgender is the least interesting thing about her.

Bree:
I say it’s the 17th most interesting thing about me, and then I always worry that someone’s going to challenge me and say, “Tell me the 16 more interesting things.”

Linda:
So obviously, you’ve had an amazing career that was cut short. Now that you’ve retired from the Space Force, you’ve decided to run for Congress in Virginia’s 11th District. Why did you decide to do this?

Bree:
Well, this is my way of continuing my oath to the Constitution. The government might be able to take away my uniform, but it can’t take away my commitment. And now that commitment is to the people of Virginia and to this nation to be the best fighter they can possibly ask for in not just standing up to this administration, countering the narrative and the lies that are coming out of the White House every single day, but also providing a vision for where we can go, for who we can be, for how we as a nation can help one another and put good into the world that is a meaningful expression of who we are as Americans. So this is me not just saying, “Hey administration, watch what happens if you fire a bunch of really talented badasses without expecting it to come back and bite you,” but also, “This is the America that I believe in. This is the Virginia that I believe in. One that gives everyone the same opportunities and better than I ever had, because that’s what any of us are going to want for future generations.”

Linda:
I think you might have just answered my next question, but just in case you missed anything that you think is relevant, if you were elected, what would your guiding principles be serving in Congress?

Bree:
Yeah, there is so much to touch on there, and I think it all comes down to character and leadership and having that vision. So it’s about where do we go, how do we make sure that we maintain a strong democracy where all of us have the opportunity to exercise our First Amendment rights in particular that are such under threat right now, but also to have that choice, you know, that we are going to protect people’s autonomy to choose their own future, to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. We also need an effective government, one where when we engage with it, we know it’s there for us and actually lets us live our lives better. So an example I offer is that when I had to make a change on my son’s Social Security card, you know, first I tried to walk in to the office, and I’m like, “Well, we don’t have walk-in hours anymore. You got to go fill out a form and make an appointment.” Okay, I’ll go fill out that form, then you have to make an appointment within 30 days, yet that office has no appointments within 30 days. Nor did the five next closest offices to me. I had to leave Virginia and go to Maryland to get that appointment done. That should not be the way the government works. It has to work on your time scale. And that extends to all the work the government does behind the scenes. We need it there, investing in healthcare, in infrastructure, in science, to make sure that our kids get to live better lives than we ever did. And then there’s so much more about this that includes a positive vision looking forward to say that we need an inclusive America. We need affordable opportunity for everyone. No one should be fleeing this country. We should be a beacon to immigrants and refugees because they are who make America great. None of us would be here without that influx of people, and the opportunity to make sure that they are welcome and have the chance to become Americans, just like those of us that are already here, is incredibly important. But if I could add one more thing, it’s also we need to start talking about constitutional change. We need to make sure that the Equal Rights Amendment is in the Constitution, that voting rights are in the Constitution, and that we limit the pardon power. That vestige of royal rule has to go because it is enabling corruption on a grand scale right now.

Linda:
So it sounds like you’ve got some pretty clear thoughts about what would be your goals and where you deserve. So what sets you apart from other candidates for the 11th District? I guess there’s James Walkinshaw we know about who replaced Gerry Connolly when he died. And we don’t know who else might be running at this point. But what sets you apart from them?

Bree:
I think a big piece of the difference is that vision for where we can go. It is about having something that says we can be better tomorrow than we were and are today rather than just we can go back to what was. It is about my story. It is about wearing the flag on my sleeve. It is about leading multi-billion dollar programs that keep Americans safe at home and abroad and my understanding of the whole of government and how we can best utilize that to support American interests and put the country first. But there’s also the contrast between us of who are we representing? I’m not taking any corporate money in my campaign. I am making sure that I’m not just checking the box. But in one very important piece of it, I am serving as someone that is a lightning rod, that is everything this administration can’t stand. A well-educated woman who believes in choice and the ability to determine our own futures. That is something that I believe. This is an opportunity to pick your best fighter. And that’s me. That’s the difference between us.

Linda:
So right now it’s a little unclear what the districts will be in Virginia for the 2026 election. So if the redistricting doesn’t go through, you’d be serving in Fairfax, correct?

Bree:
That’s correct.

Linda:
And if it does go through, then your district would extend from Fairfax all the way out here to Shenandoah County. If you were to be serving in Congress, how would you stay in touch with such a geographically diverse constituency?

Bree:
I think it’s important to listen to everyone and to be there, to show up, to make sure that you understand what the interests, the challenges, the opportunities are in all parts of the district. So I’d be doing what I’m doing right now, being out here in Shenandoah Valley with the opportunity to listen to people. And we were just at a farm earlier today making sure, understand what are the agricultural issues that we need to do. And what are the needs that are brought across the district, like affordability, particularly in terms of housing and access to health care. And what are the unique needs of different parts of the district, whether that’s different kinds of transit, whether that is the way we locate other infrastructure and power and data, or how we handle tourism in this kind of area. So showing up matters, listening matters, and making sure you represent the interests of everyone. And that’s both geographic and also isn’t just the people that voted for you. Every member of Congress, every member who is in public service has to represent all Americans and always be thinking about how do we put the interests of the country and the district first.

Linda:
That would be a nice change. We’ve covered a pretty broad topic, and I could sit here and probably talk to you for hours. What haven’t we covered that you think is important?

Bree:
Well, there are so many issues that we can talk about in terms of what is best for people right now. But one of the things I think is really valuable to talk about is the actions we can all be taking right now to stand up to this administration. And we see that out here in places like Woodstock, where they’ve been protesting for, now I believe, 53 weeks straight, showing up and showing our neighbors a little bit of courage. Because there are a lot of people out there right now that are afraid to speak up, to speak out, to show up at some of these events, that by us standing together and showing that there is another way, there is a better path. That matters. And the more of us that do so, the faster we actually drive change. So that’s what I’d ask of anyone out here. Speak up, show up, ask for and demand change because we see things that are going the wrong direction right now. When I was out here last week, just driving around, gas was 50 or 60 cents lower at every station that we drove by. We shouldn’t be enabling an administration that is doing everything possible to raise prices by starting reckless foreign wars, by taxing the American people with tariffs, and by shrinking the workforce. It’s up to us to stand up, to speak out and say what can be better.

Linda:
Thank you so much for sitting down with me today and thank you for your service and your continued efforts to help make Virginia and America a better place. It’s inspiring. So thank you very much.

Bree:
Well, thank you for having me.